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Topic: Should I join ASJA?
| Author | Message |
| Cookie08 | Posted – 3/12/2008 11:42:41 PM | show profile Can anyone weigh in on what journalism societies are "worth" joining - ASJA? SPJ? Which ones offer the best networking, job opps, etc? Thanks! |
| RockinRonD | Posted – 3/16/2008 10:46:04 AM | show profile | email poster ASJA If you join ASJA for the job postings you'll no doubt be disappointed. Most of the listings are for book projects that don't pay all that well and have unreasonable deadlines. Once in a while there is a good one, but hardly worth the price of admission. There is an active bulletin board, but the committee that oversees it gets real cranky whenever anyone expresses their opinions in too strong a manner. Sadly, it amounts to censorship of a sort, which in my view, has no place in an organization of journalists. But there are some bright and funny people among the membership and you could make some great friends. If that's your cup of meat. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/16/2008 12:06:04 PM | show profile It depends what you want and need, whether you're a staffer looking for your next job or...? I'm on the board of ASJA; we have more than 1,360 members nationally, many of whose bylines you've read in major publications from the NYT and its magazines to Glamour, More, O, Atlantic, Smithsonian, etc. Our annual conference is in NYC April 11 and 12 and might be worth exploring to see if you like who you meet and what we do; our website has details, asja.org. Among our many benefits, we have a monthly newsletter, on-line bulletin boards (more carefully moderated to attract and retain thoughtful posts, not encourage or reward vitriol.) It is a group most focused on the needs of freelance writers and authors; SPJ is likely more useful to those on staff or wishing to be. ASJA is not focused on offering FT or even part-time job leads but most helpful for almost any aspect of freelance writing. |
| snappiness | Posted – 3/16/2008 10:28:00 PM | show profile I was recently looking at ASJA too. I used to be a member of the National Writer's Union but for me it is too militant with the whole "organize or die" gospel. I'm not much of a union person, I guess. For the price, I'm m not sure ASJA has much to offer. I already know a bunch of big name writers, so I'm not sure that will help me. Is the newsletter good? |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/16/2008 11:11:20 PM | show profile It depends how helpful (?) those big-name writers are to you, if that is something you want and need. I find ASJA invaluable in a few ways, and one is sourcing national stories through people I know and trust; another is being able to ask people who write for pub's I'd like to break into for names/contacts...Once people know and trust you (and vice versa), it can be a great network. The newsletter has at least one feature I value highly, Paycheck, in which we offer up details of pay rates, contracts and working conditions for a wide range of publications...So if someone at X mag offers you $1/wd and you know they're paying $2/wd to others, that's worth $200 a year to me in dues. |
| eriksherman | Posted – 3/17/2008 10:36:45 AM | show profile | email poster I don't think that anyone can ultimately tell you whether a given organization is useful to you or not. It depends on exactly what you want and how you relate to the group. For example, I was a member of ASJA for a number of years but let my membership lapse, though I know some people who still get economic benefit from it and stay for that reason. I joined NWU some time back for a couple of years more to support some of their efforts than anything else, but was turned off by some outrageous politics, which, to be fair, have changed. I keep a membership at Freelance Success (caveat, I'm a contributing editor there); purely from an economic standpoint, I've found it to have the highest return on investment for me, personally, and some of the online discussions can be interesting. But my experience wouldn't directly translate to you - the thing to do is try joining an organization for a year or two and see how you find it. One suggestiong, though: Don't join as a form of validation of your status as a writer. I don't find that editors pay any attention to that sort of thing, and your own credits and work are what will make your name, not an alphabetic affiliation. ------ Free writer resources: http://www.eriksherman.com/WriterBiz |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/17/2008 11:50:32 AM | show profile I think it also depends on how important (if at all) social contacts -- i.e. friendship, not just $$-focused networking -- matter to you as well. Erik and I met and became good friends through ASJA and still are, whether he's a member or not. There are people who are wild about FLX and some wild about ASJA and some who love and belong to both. Again, and there's no gain for me if you do or don't, I'd suggest attending our annual conference -- which offers plenty of chances to meet and talk to members -- to see if it feels like a fit. I'm proud of the work that fellow members do and feel lucky to have access to smart, helpful, experienced peers; the 15-member national board works hard, almost daily, to try to improve things for writers. FLX, which many people really love, is not a membership organization, so it is somewhat different in that respect. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/17/2008 11:51:01 AM | show profile I think it also depends on how important (if at all) social contacts -- i.e. friendship, not just $$-focused networking -- matter to you as well. Erik and I met and became good friends through ASJA and still are, whether he's a member or not. There are people who are wild about FLX and some wild about ASJA and some who love and belong to both. Again, and there's no gain for me if you do or don't, I'd suggest attending our annual conference -- which offers plenty of chances to meet and talk to members -- to see if it feels like a fit. I'm proud of the work that fellow members do and feel lucky to have access to smart, helpful, experienced peers; the 15-member national board works hard, almost daily, to try to improve things for writers. FLX, which many people really love, is not a membership organization, so it is somewhat different in that respect. |
| Cookie08 | Posted – 3/17/2008 11:57:35 AM | show profile thanks for the insight everyone. mostly I'm looking to connect with other writers, so may be worth a shot. |
| RockinRonD | Posted – 3/25/2008 7:36:32 PM | show profile | email poster Joining ASJA One caveat about the ASJA conferences--if you don't live in NYC, they can be very expensive to attend; even existing members often don't because of the cost. But they're a nice group of people by and large and real friendships can be made, which is always helpful if you're a freelancer. It is also worth noting that you must have impressive credentials to gain membership. With FLX, not so much. |
| arewrites | Posted – 3/26/2008 2:47:59 AM | show profile Don't be fooled by the propaganda myth that you need "impressive credentials." If you've written 6 articles in your entire life for which you've been paid, chances are you'll get in. ASJA was once a more exclusive organization, but these days, it's really hard to be turned down. Also note that criteria for membership specifically state that quality of writing is irrelevant ... a point I missed when I first joined. Had I noticed that -- and given what I discovered once I did -- I wouldn't have even applied, let alone spent the money for dues. ASJA certainly offers several benefits (especially for those who write for parenting, health, and women's magazines), but don't expect premier journalistic ability of its members to be one of them. You won't find George Packer in its ranks. |
| roxannekkb | Posted – 3/26/2008 3:24:44 AM | show profile >>It is also worth noting that you must have impressive credentials to gain membership. With FLX, not so much.<< You don't need any credentials to "join" FLX other than $89 or whatever it costs now. It is a newsletter, not an organization, and anyone on earth can subscribe. You can participate on the forums if you subscribe, but it is not a membership organization. |
| RockinRonD | Posted – 3/26/2008 9:47:27 AM | show profile | email poster Arewrites is correct, I think, in his/her assessment of gaining membership to ASJA--I tend to agree that getting your check is the priority these days rather than your "credentials," impressive or otherwise. He/she is also correct in that the majority of members seem to write about the three subjects he/she outlined. And while I stand corrected in that FLX is not a "member" organization and hence there is no need to meet certain qualifications to join, there is a nice group of people who belong, some of whom are seasoned professional writers who are generous with advice and sharing contact info. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/26/2008 11:27:17 AM | show profile arewrites, who I know personally, is a former member who has left ASJA with real distaste for the group. Chacun a son gout. Everyone has their opinion but talking to a larger number of ASJA'ers than the three who have spoken out here is worth trying. Yes, the annual conference can be costly, especially for those who must travel from across the country and pay high NYC hotel rates. But in addition to panels and one-on-one mentoring, the conference offers many chances to meet and chat with our members, whose talents and experience are astonishing and a fantastic source for future work and friendship. Anyone who seeks smart, helpful, exerienced peers will find them through this group. One essential difference -- and there are many -- between FLX (which its members, many of whom also belong to ASJA, value highly) and ASJA is that the latter is led by a 15-member national board that meets monthly and talks almost every day to work on a wide range of issues that matter to our members and others. The board members, (which includes me), include award-winning veteran authors and journalists whose work has appeared on best-seller lists and in a wide range range of publications, far wider than the three areas arewrites says is the case. |
| roxannekkb | Posted – 3/26/2008 4:44:28 PM | show profile Not to hijack this thread, but I am always baffled why people think of FLX as an organization and the people who sign up as "members." There is no comparison between FLX and ASJA, other than the fact that both have a forum where writers can share information, complain, offer support, or whatever. FLX is a newsletter that is privately owned by one individual. You subscribe to FLX, just like you'd subscribe to any other publication. It is open to anyone who wants to pay for it. As a subscriber, you can participate in the forum. But that's really it. There is no governing board, no director, etc. ASJA on the other hand is a full fledged organization. I'm not a member, so I can't comment on it, but it does offer members more benefits than just being able to chat on a forum and get a weekly newsletter about freelance markets. Many FLX subscribers are ASJA members. |
| arewrites | Posted – 3/30/2008 2:36:50 AM | show profile Caitlin is right. I left ASJA with real distaste for the group. That distaste didn't come out of nowhere. I expected a professional organization of talented writers who focused on intelligent reporting, careful crafting of language, interest in significant topics, and could be trusted to exhibit honesty, integrity, and ethical behavior both in their work and in their lives. I certainly expected that one needed higher qualifications than simply having "published" in MediaBistro or written a "how to knit" book -- both of which have been accepted by the ASJA membership committee as qualifying credentials. What I anticipated, when I joined ASJA, was what I found there, and it was excellent. Then ASJA changed. It is not insignificant that most of its most prestigious members, almost all of its long-term members, and --- with the exception of Caitlin, whose work I admire and respect, and whose commitment to serious journalism is laudable -- all of its "hard news" erwereporters and those who tackle serious or controversial issues have moved on. |
| arewrites | Posted – 3/30/2008 3:02:21 AM | show profile >>ASJA on the other hand is a full fledged organization. I'm not a member, so I can't comment on it, but it does offer members more benefits than just being able to chat on a forum and get a weekly newsletter about freelance markets. Many FLX subscribers are ASJA members.<<< Not much, actually. Last I knew, even the contract review committee was inactive. The job opportunities are the target of laughter, disparaging remarks, and annoyance more than the sources of actual work for most members -- and those who consider taking them (never mind who actually *do take them) get reprimanded for lowering pay standards for other writers. The "Paycheck Reports," in which members post information about what they were paid, has, I understand, also been adopted by FLX. And even the member bodies are virtually identical these days. Pretty much all the ASJA members remaining are FLX subscribers -- Roxanne is right -- who hear about the organization on the FLX boards. That said, there are advantages to ASJA over FLX: though the quality concerns have deteriorated, you do find that ASJA has fewer newbies (though sometimes some of the questions on the boards, like "how do I write a query letter?", are staggeringly inappropriate). If you write for the women's mag/health mag group, you'll find many helpful tips and supportive colleagues, up-to-date info on editors and their needs, and even story ideas. If you're a new mother, you'll find tons of other new mothers trying to figure out how to combine new-motherhood with freelancing and how to move into the "parenting essays" market. And you'll be sure, too, to find great recipes for your Easter dinner, which, if that matters to you, is always a good thing. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/30/2008 1:35:47 PM | show profile Even as ASJA and FLX begin to share some features, as is likely inevitable, there remains an essential difference -- and I know Jennie and admire her creation, FLX -- ASJA's national 15-member board of highly experienced authors and journalists is a significant point of difference between the two. That may not matter to some. Others may dislike us personally and/or disagree with our actions (or inactions) -- but we exist! And, God forbid, you should come and do it. It is a stunning amount of (unpaid) work on behalf of 1,367 members of all ages and interests and skill levels. We do it because the industry needs smart, committed pro's fighting as best we can for writers' needs. Yes, features of ASJA (like the jobs board) need improvement and the board is addressing that, along with many other new and unique initiatives. Mediabistro and FLX fill many needs and do it well. But they are profit-making entities, not fellow writers fighting to protect and promote writers' interests. I'd proud to have been elected to represent the interests of my peers and colleagues. That can't happen with FLX because it is not a membership-based organization. |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 3/30/2008 4:50:42 PM | show profile >>I expected a professional organization of talented writers who focused on intelligent reporting, careful crafting of language, interest in significant topics, and could be trusted to exhibit honesty, integrity, and ethical behavior both in their work and in their lives. I certainly expected that one needed higher qualifications than simply having "published" in MediaBistro or written a "how to knit" book << arewrites, I got turned off even before downloading the application -- what did it for me was reading the membership roster on the Web site and recognizing the names of writers whom I had edited once, vowing never to edit them again. It was ironic to see my magazine or newspaper listed as a credential, knowing what was behind that credential. I'd advise anybody to learn who the members are before paying to join any organization, if you're interested in finding mentors, peers or camaraderie. (As roxanne points out, Freelance Success is a whole different thing from ASJA and SPJ; I am not talking here about Freelance Success.) |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/30/2008 7:41:46 PM | show profile How many writers is that BBelinda? 5? 10? 20? Of a membership of 1,367. For every writer you consider a laughingstock, there's an editor some of us would never work with again either. This remains a highly subjective industry when it comes to notions of value, skill or talent -- on both sides of the desk. |
| arewrites | Posted – 3/31/2008 3:05:37 AM | show profile Caitlin, the problem is that the Board no longer DOES consist of accomplished writers. When people who literally cannot spell and cannot string together a coherent sentence, who see nothing wrong with promoting ASJA's editorial and writing talents with a brochure riddled with punctuation, grammatical and spelling errors, whose best clip is for something like "Motorcycle Mama" become the representatives of what once was, and still should be, an organization representing the very best in the industry, there's a problem. And there's even a bigger problem when those who try to mention this receive threats -- and they have -- from the President of the organization, telling them to keep their mouths shut. The fact is that many members have left in the past year, and though officially some of them are considered as "not renewing for professional reasons," their reasons have nothing to do with "professional changes" or whatever other nonsense their files now show officially. You know this. People have left because of the low membership criteria, because of outrageous ethics -- or lack thereof -- because of dishonesty and manipulations, and so on. It's a sad state of affairs that I hope will one day change -- and I hope that you can help produce that change. But in the meantime, I'm sorry to say, ASJA isn't what it once was and is far from what it should be. As I said earlier, your example of top-quality reporting and excellent writing skills is what I expected from all ASJA members. Unfortunately, you are one of the very few such remaining. |
| arewrites | Posted – 3/31/2008 3:07:48 AM | show profile >> not fellow writers fighting to protect and promote writers' interests.<< But when the organization defends a member who has violated copyright, what is one supposed to think? |
| arewrites | Posted – 3/31/2008 8:44:51 AM | show profile correction In fairness, I should say "reportedly" receive threats, as I was not among those threatened. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/31/2008 12:46:56 PM | show profile This is not the place to argue for or against ASJA in this level of detail or for me to personally answer this array of charges and concerns. The original poster asked a basic question and I've done my best to answer it. If s/he wants to learn more, I'd suggest visiting the asja.org website, speaking to our ED Alexandra Owens or emailing me privately. |
