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Topic: Why are people so scared of the phoning?
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| InsomniacNOT | Posted – 3/21/2008 4:09:52 PM | show profile Two threads this week got me thinking about what seems to be a kind of phone-phobia that plagues a lot of people on this board. One poster says she's heard it's rude to call an editor you don't know, which sure is news to me and strikes me as crazy in a profession dedicated to eliciting information. And then in a post on a job application, another poster wonders whether it's okay to phone and follow up on a job application. I can't help but feel that this reluctance to phone is -- on some level -- a fear of rejection. Phoning definitely is more difficult than e-mailing, but for many things it's way more efficient. Why do people not phone? Is it a generational thing? What's the story? |
| jkdscribe | Posted – 3/21/2008 4:18:08 PM | show profile I would like to hear the thoughts of editors on this actually. I know I have been reluctant to phone at times out of fear of coming off as pushy or annoying. However, when trying to put myself in the shoes of an editor, I feel like--assuming the call was professional and worthwhile--I would prefer those prospects that are serious enough to call. So...thoughts? |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/21/2008 4:23:09 PM | show profile who even picks up their phone anymore? |
| foodlit | Posted – 3/21/2008 4:24:08 PM | show profile The key to phoning anyone is to first ask when they answer, "do you have a moment, or have I caught you at a bad time." If you don't do this, you can come off as incredibly rude and disrespectful of their time...plus, if you insist on talking when they're clearly in the midst of something you won't have their full attention and they'll resent the intrusion. Asking the quick question make such a huge difference. And you're crazy not to phone. As long as you go about it this way, in a professional manner, why wouldn't you? You can have a bit more control over the process if you take it, by phoning, rather than sitting back and waiting to hear. I'm a huge fan of the phone, can you tell? You also stand out because the vast majority, now that we have email are too timid to phone, so while they're sitting back, you could be making things happen for yourself. Smile, and dial. :) Pam |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/21/2008 4:32:51 PM | show profile It's not generational. It's human nature. Most people fear rejection and confrontation. Calling up someone to ask for something puts you at risk for both. --Why do people not phone? Is it a generational thing? What's the story?-- |
| InsomniacNOT | Posted – 3/21/2008 4:51:50 PM | show profile I find people worry way too much about coming off as pushy and annoying when what they should be worried about is being passive and not following up. Yes, I have been annoyed by phone calls at the wrong time, but do I blame the person phoning? No, especially if they do as Foodlit suggests and ask if it's a good time to talk. I do agree with what a commenter in another thread said about not leaving voice mails if the goal is to talk to the person. I once had an employee who told me she let 20 voice mails for someone and I told her never to do that again. I think you have to assume the person you are trying to make contact with is like you and unlikely to be annoyed by normal human interaction. And, again, as Foodlit said, if everyone else is too scared to phone, then you will stand out. |
| Corinna | Posted – 3/21/2008 4:58:02 PM | show profile I hate phones, I always have. For me it's not fear of rejection, but simply fear of sounding like an idiot. Even with simple calls like making a Dr's appointment, I have a talent for coming off like a complete moron. So if I have a choice between email and phone when I need to impress someone, I'll choose email every time. If pitching by phone was the only way to do it, then I'm sure I could deal with it. (I've had many receptionist and other admin positions where phones are a major part of the job, and I do fine.) But since most (all?) writer's guidelines I've seen say to pitch by email and often specify "no phone calls!", I stick with that. Partly I'm not sure when it's "right", etiquette-wise, and partly I just don't want to sound like a dork. |
| TheSecondShift | Posted – 3/21/2008 10:53:53 PM | show profile I can't help but feel that this reluctance to phone is -- on some level -- a fear of rejection.>> No, I don't fear rejection--I try to be respectful of what a person requests and usually I find out those preferences by reading WM and HTP and the like. It's not like this information discouraging calls to certain editors doesn't exist. It does, whether you've heard about it or not. Just because I'm more cautious about it doesn't mean I'm "crazy" and the like. And as far as a generational thing? Well, I'm not a spring chicken and having a previous career in telemarketing, I'm not scared of the phone. There really are no absolute ways to work this issue out here and I'm not sure it helps to make it seem like one is better or worse for deciding on a course of action that is appropriate to them. I have an editor who is damned near rude to every person who phones her and she doesn't know them. I hear the conversations and they are rarely pretty. Does that mean she's a bad editor to work for? Not necessarily. It just means that she gets annoyed when people don't follow the directives on the Writer's Guidelines that are available to anyone who's taken a minute to look at them. Some consider it "standing above the rest" when you decide to ignore requests for snail mail pitches, refusing to adhere to the "dont' call us, we'll call you" line, etc. And for every success story from someone who ignored it, there's probably another person who can say otherwise. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/21/2008 11:47:01 PM | show profile I disagree with this approach completely. Freelance writers are, at a certain point, salesmen, and any salesman will tell you have to take with a grain of salt how potential customers request you contact them or not contact them. Because guidelines like WM generally have the purpose of shielding editors from being bothered, rather than helping you make the sale. 99.9999 percent of people will tell you they don't want to be called by a salesman -- until the right salesman calls them with the right offer at the right time. And then they're glad he did. --No, I don't fear rejection--I try to be respectful of what a person requests and usually I find out those preferences by reading WM and HTP and the like. It's not like this information discouraging calls to certain editors doesn't exist. It does, whether you've heard about it or not.-- |
| TheSecondShift | Posted – 3/22/2008 12:51:41 AM | show profile that's fine if you disagree on the approach. I respect that you choose a different way of handling things and all I ask is that you respect, if not agree, with my reasoning, because it is not born of ill thought and consideration. I would no more presume to call you pushy, inconsiderate or the like for how you choose to run your business and believe people who choose to go another route shouldn't be labeled either. I think I'm pretty sucessful in my career but always believe there's an opportunity to learn new things which I already have from my short time here. But simply sharing ideas, conflicting or not, is my only goal here and I hope that's possible. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/22/2008 2:34:50 AM | show profile Sure, I respect it. In general, though, I think the majority of freelance writers do a disservice to themselves by being too passive in the business aspects of their profession, like marketing their work. Everything must be considered on a case-by-case basis, but as a general rule, I think most freelance writers would be much more successful by being more aggressive in these areas and worrying less about niceties or supposed "rules" of how things should be done. I've been around the block a lot in this profession, and in general I find that freelance magazine writers are too passive, accept too little money, and let themselves be abused because they are insecure and doubt the value of the services they are providing. But, again as a general rule, I don't think freelance writers derive much value from being told to do whatever editors tell them to do, don't ruffle their feathers, and be grateful for whatever they get. -- Posted ? 3/22/2008 12:51:41 AM | show profile that's fine if you disagree on the approach. I respect that you choose a different way of handling things and all I ask is that you respect, if not agree, with my reasoning, because it is not born of ill thought and consideration. I would no more presume to call you pushy, inconsiderate or the like for how you choose to run your business and believe people who choose to go another route shouldn't be labeled either. I think I'm pretty sucessful in my career but always believe there's an opportunity to learn new things which I already have from my short time here. But simply sharing ideas, conflicting or not, is my only goal here and I hope that's possible.-- |
| InsomniacNOT | Posted – 3/22/2008 9:02:14 AM | show profile Like Dribble, I too have been around the block. I can honestly say that in my 25+ years in this business, I have never seen anyone lose out on an assignment or job for being politley persistent. I have, on the other hand, seen dozens of cases where people didn't get interviews or assignments because they were out of sight, out of mind. Perhaps their resumes were buried in a pile or went to spam or they never phoned to follow up on a query that was, as a result, forgotten. As for writer's guidelines, in the offices I've worked, they were usually a 20-year-old document sent out by the receptionist when Writer's Digest called and had little basis in reality. Sad to say but the info. in those guides is often as inaccurate as the outdated editor names. So many people on this board seem so concerned with seeming "pushy," which my experience tells me is a baseless worry. What they should be worried about, as Dribble says, is being too passive, which is the real problem. |
| onmyown | Posted – 3/22/2008 2:20:29 PM | show profile Don't call ... ... unless you have already sent a well-thought-out query by email. I absolutely hate it when freelancers call and try to pitch by phone. Or call to argue when I've rejected a story. If you're a writer I've used before and respect, fine, I'll chat. This refers to my earlier comment about freelancers being like telemarketers. If a writer sends me a well-written, researched pitch, with an actual angle and background on who they are, I'll respond with courtesy and even take a call from that person. Unfortunately, most queries I get are simply on the variation of "Hi, would you like a story on X." No research, no angle. Sometimes it's simply, "Hi, remember me when you're making assignments." Now why should I spend time offering them a courteous response when they didn't put any effort into their email and are not showing me any professional courtesy in the first place? And why on earth would I talk on the phone to such a person? If the written query is done the way it should be done, you'll hear back, plain and simple. If you don't do what you should do in the first place, why should I take time out of my busy day to show you professional courtesy? |
| InsomniacNOT | Posted – 3/22/2008 3:33:10 PM | show profile Agreed 100% that you should send an email first so that when you call, the callee will have something in writing to consult. Also agree that you shouldn't argue with an editor who's turned down your query. In fact, I think that's one of the reasons, some editors don't reply to unsolicited queries. They don't want to get into a back and forth with an arguer. In another thread, someone also mentions that if an editor turns down a query and someone else picks it up, he'll send the original editor a clip of his story. Saying I told you so -- Also a bad idea. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/22/2008 3:45:05 PM | show profile I could see an argument both ways. I don't see anything wrong with giving a brief pitch call to let the editor know a query will soon be coming. That may result in a quicker response than simply sending off an email which may disappear. Also, I could see calling if you have a special expertise -- like health, technology,or business writing -- and you were looking for assignments rather than pitching your own ideas. I've never done that for magazine writing, but I have in search of corporate gigs. --Don't call ... ... unless you have already sent a well-thought-out query by email. I absolutely hate it when freelancers call and try to pitch by phone. Or call to argue when I've rejected a story. If you're a writer I've used before and respect, fine, I'll chat.-- |
| TheSecondShift | Posted – 3/22/2008 5:00:46 PM | show profile I think it would be great if the current editors would weigh in as I think it's very interesting. Onmyown, I think even well-thought our queries can be ignored--especially from those who just don't want to deal with a new writer, but likes the idea. I'd like to think my queries are well crafted. I've worked many years on the art of it. I've been published in national, regional and local pubs using my query "formula" so I know they've been effective. But for every editor that answers yay or nay, there's another who doesn't bother either way even with subsequent follow ups. So my question to you is, if one thinks deep down they've sent you a spot on query and you think otherwise, how is anyone supposed to know that if you don't respond? Giving them a no means they can move on, don't you agree? I was in a forum recently where an editor from an inflight said "assume no response means "not interested"." However, I've had people say my email ended up in their spam folder. So I then go back through all my queries and wonder if those unanswered have had the same fate or is it a "no"! Right now my MO is to usually resubmit, wait a bit and then move on. I'm going to take the suggestion of making the call though. It'll be interesting to see what happens. If the written query is done the way it should be done, you'll hear back, plain and simple. If you don't do what you should do in the first place, why should I take time out of my busy day to show you professional courtesy? |
| TheSecondShift | Posted – 3/22/2008 5:12:04 PM | show profile I agree with this, but I can also understand why it happens. I know brilliant, brilliant writers who just aren't great at selling themselves. It's not for lack of interest or being deliberately passive, it's just not one of their strengths. While I don't feel I'm extraordinarily aggressive, having mouths to feed forces me to implement an active plan of attack that takes me just out of my comfort zone. >I think the majority of freelance writers do a disservice to themselves by being too passive in the business aspects of their profession, like marketing their work. Everything must be considered on a case-by-case basis, but as a general rule, I think most freelance writers would be much more successful by being more aggressive in these areas and worrying less about niceties or supposed "rules" of how things should be done. |
| foodlit | Posted – 3/22/2008 9:35:27 PM | show profile Here's a little tip that might help when you call. Knowing that editors are drowning in emails, when you call, be sure to look up first exactly the date and approximate time that you emailed them. Sounds silly, but this has worked for me when I've been the one getting the call....and I should point out that my example comes from receiving resumes...not queries....but I think it could work the same. By mentioning when you sent it, whether you are leaving a voicemail or talking in person, you are making it easy for the editor to quickly find your email and jog her memory on who you are and what your pitch was. Try it. I found it incredibly helpful as it helped me find the information quickly in outlook, and that was much appreciated...and especially if you have a great pitch, she/he will be appreciate the help. Good luck! Pam |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/23/2008 2:45:06 AM | show profile Yeah, but that's a cop-out really. Almost every self-employed person has to learn to do things he doesn't enjoy or naturally do well. Selling is a skill many people force themselves to learn. If you choose to say, "I am a writer, and I don't want to sell myself<" that's fine with me -- just don't waste my time complaining about they are mistreated the editors who they permit to mistreat them. --agree with this, but I can also understand why it happens. I know brilliant, brilliant writers who just aren't great at selling themselves. It's not for lack of interest or being deliberately passive, it's just not one of their strengths. While I don't feel I'm extraordinarily aggressive, having mouths to feed forces me to implement an active plan of attack that takes me just out of my comfort zone.-- |
| TheSecondShift | Posted – 3/23/2008 1:31:26 PM | show profile Well I'm almost certain I said some people aren't "good at it", not that they don't want to sell themselves at all. There's a difference between the two. Not being good at something is not a cop out. It's just one area a person might not shine in. And phoning up might be someone's particular defecit. We all have them. As far as not wasting someone's time complaining if they haven't taken that step, I agree with some of the sentiment. But then, that old "you can skip the post" MO applies as well as remembering one's freedom to discuss anything one wants here when paying their own tab. I'm really more inclined to feel for and want to help newbies who are still trying to find their way in this business that's lousy with conflicting messages. At the end of the day, each one of us has to find our own rhythm. You don't get to be a vet without stumbling and falling and leaning on others for help. I'm sure we've all been in both positions at some point. Yeah, but that's a cop-out really. Almost every self-employed person has to learn to do things he doesn't enjoy or naturally do well. Selling is a skill many people force themselves to learn. If you choose to say, "I am a writer, and I don't want to sell myself<" that's fine with me -- just don't waste my time complaining about they are mistreated the editors who they permit to mistreat them. |
| brainfry | Posted – 3/23/2008 2:01:16 PM | show profile Please do not call Hate, hate, hate it when people call. Can't help it, but I always feel like they are being pushy. When I am ready to assign or have a query about a pitch, I will email. I had one woman who I was going to assign something call me three times without leaving a message (saw on caller ID), and it definitely made me think twice about working with her. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/24/2008 2:20:30 AM | show profile That's a reasonable stance. Personally, I tend to less interested in the newbies. I generally aim my comments at the people who have some experience and want to move to the next level. My interest is more in the people who are at a point that they seriously want to make livings as freelance writers, rather than the people who want to know how to get a byline in a national magazine. The second viewpoint is certainly valid; it just doesn't interest me a lot at this point in my life. --I'm really more inclined to feel for and want to help newbies who are still trying to find their way in this business that's lousy with conflicting messages. At the end of the day, each one of us has to find our own rhythm. You don't get to be a vet without stumbling and falling and leaning on others for help. I'm sure we've all been in both positions at some point.-- |
| WordyBird | Posted – 3/24/2008 11:59:46 AM | show profile Perhaps it's because we write for a living, and we're just better with the written word than the spoken one. I know I am. Personally, I don't like to make or receive pitches by phone. In my experience, there are far too many people who just plain don't have good phone manners--they interrupt, eat while on the phone, talk over you, snap gum in your ear, or cut you off and put you on hold as you're speaking. Then there are those who work in offices where the background noise is just overwhelming, or whose co-workers think nothing of interrupting *them* while they are on a call. I think it far better to write and receive well-planned, well-executed written queries. In addition to giving an editor something to digest, they provide an opportunity for a writer to showcase his or her writing skills. In other words, if the query is poorly written, with typos and grammatical monstrosities, then that's a pretty good barometer of the quality of work the editor will receive--so forget it. |
| editab | Posted – 3/24/2008 2:12:43 PM | show profile As an editor, I prefer e-mail queries, for many reasons. I'm often in the middle of deadlines and can more easily read e-mail later on, when I have time (which may be late at night, from the comfort of my own home) than deal with a phone call from a writer at that moment. I find I usually spend more time considering an e-mail pitch, because I have it in writing and can go back to it as needed as my editorial needs change. Most of our story ideas are generated in-house and then assigned to a writer. Having e-mailed pitches in my inbox is great, because if I'm searching for a writer on a certain topic/destination, I can do a search of my inbox using keywords related to that topic. That has led me to use several new freelance writers. Although I prefer that a writer send a written pitch first, it's fine with me if the writer politely calls to check on the status of the pitch. That helps keep it at the top of my mind. But it does help to have something in writing to work off of. I will say that my response rate is better for e-mail than for voicemail, and that I have had a few negative encounters by phone. I've had a few freelance writers who call and leave messages repeatedly (every couple days), taking on a tone of annoyance/impatience with me when I haven't called them back yet. I've also had unknown freelance writers call me in the middle of deadline (which of course they wouldn't know, so I can understand that) and interrupt/talk over me when I try to tell them it's not a good time to talk. I no longer answer my phone during deadlines unless it's a number I know. Honestly, I'd love to call everyone back that called me (and same for e-mail), but if I spent all of my time doing that, I would never get a single issue of the magazine to press. |
| joyeuxnoelle | Posted – 3/24/2008 7:43:48 PM | show profile sheepish I think I inspired this post in part, Insomniac. *smile* I still think it's a bit rude to call an editor you don't already have relationship with. I guess reading all of the "don't call" warnings on job postings and htps has always translated as an unofficial rule not to call unless you have some sort of commitment from the editor. So I wouldn't call an editor about a pitch she hadn't bothered to respond to, but I might call to confirm the editor received the piece I sent, if I knew he was having email problems. Or I might call to remind an editor to send a contract. |
